Atheism, I began to realize, rested on a less-than-satisfactory evidential basis. The arguments that had once seemed bold, decisive, and conclusive increasingly turned out to be circular, tentative, and uncertain.
Alister McGrath
Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning.
C.S. Lewis
If you are really a product of a materialistic universe, how is it that you don’t feel at home there?
C.S. Lewis
| C. S. Lewis | |
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 C.S. Lewis aged 50 |
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Defend The Word 
I’m not sure where I heard this but it thought it would be appropriate to share. “The saddest day in an atheist’s life is when they are truly thankful and realize they have no one to thank.”
Thanks Tim
I had a quick read and I’m surprised at the amount of assumptions you have put in your post. If you don’t mind I would like to give you little bit of feedback. I was rather hopeful to find some evidence for your ideas. I would love to find more direct attack on Christian views as that would be easier to defend. Global imprecise argumentation is typical of what we find with people leaving comments in British press. Where they feel at home due to the volume of supporters of their world view.
I would however be more specific and put argument that explains why you disagree with Christianity. Why your meaning of life is better and how did you get that added value to your everyday mundane tedious going to work, coming home and over and over again aimlessly bore yourself to death.
I guess that this is precisely why you have to find outlets as your blog to bit the blues. That is OK and correct; that you should explore the true meaning however I would expect two more things.
Place where I can leave comments and place where people can freely disagree with you and still be welcomed at the table where all ideas are explored and not shut down because we don’t understand them of disagree with them.
Kind regards
Defend the Word
The feedback and critical comment is much appreciated. Comment is freely available on my blog, so I urge you to comment on it directly in regards to the specifics of where you think my analysis comes up short. I’m as open-minded as the next person if a person can provide a convincing argument contrary to my existing beliefs.
@Easter Bunny
“The saddest day in an atheist’s life is when they are truly thankful and realize they have no one to thank.”
Midori Skies: Huh? But I have plenty of people to thank! My parents for raising me, my brother and his wife for their friendship and support, my friends for helping me and making me feel valued when I help them, etc. etc.
Defend the Word: I’m sure you are right that you have plenty to be thankful for. That is not the idea behind the original comment. I’m sure you are valuable and valued and loved by your friends. It is the world view that is at question here. If there is no God than there is no need to be thankful for anything. Egotistical attitude, hatful actions and harmful behaviour are equally right if there are no definitive standards that we go by.
They could not be derived from individual standards as they would be all different and we know that they are not. Some things are equally revolting to most people unless they have standards that are different from what God give us. Which is possible Bible tells us that those who continue to oppose God , God allowed to have their sense of what is right and wrong perverted in their minds.
In short I’m glad to hear your reply, now you need to think where does that appriciation come from?
Kind regards
Defend the Word
First let me start by saying that you are very eloquent in your delivery of very interesting idea. I would suggest however that you have derived to that conclusion through the instruction and influence of others. Which is fantastic as it demonstrate that we can trade in ideas and exchange in world views in a logical way. And I appreciate that intellectual beauty and understanding of such complex ideas.
There are few problems in saying that we judge them to be pretty yet this idea of where that comes from seams to be unaccounted in your argument.
We know from Biology that some organisms are not classed as pretty by most people (I’m thinking of vultures) and whilst this may sometimes give rise to some to think that this invalidates Christian idea of beauty and God as its originator in fact it does not. It’s the ability to appreciate that is the amazing part. Secondly functionality and complexity can be just as equally beautiful. As can mathematical equations’ etc. etc.
Idea that we have neurological impulses and that our brain recognises beauty is nothing short of miraculous in my opinion. Knowing does not reduce but in fact increases Christian’s appreciation of beauty.
Your idea about the patterns being in existence but no one there to appreciate is not really valid if we are to suppose that God is there (Hypothetically) then this pleaser could be incurred by spiritual beings and God himself. And would not in any way contradict the ability to appreciate beautiful things.
If this is the true assessment which is by all means possibly and is not discounted by your argumentation I would say it makes perfect sense that God could be the source of our appreciation ability.
Secondly, Bible says that God give rain and sunshine to the believer and non-believer in equal measure then equally he would work precisely the same on the sense of appreciation of beauty. One of the things that Bible also says is that we can recognise the works of his hand.
I notice that you are very eloquent and in fact beautifully espouse your ideas. My appreciation of those is equally God given. As for the sense that we evolve, how about the fact that we have mathematical beauty which never evolves it simply is. Physical laws that are complex and beautifully show that there is a need for a designer.
Whilst I did like Christopher Hitchens I always use to wonder how can it be that such intelligent man could not analyse the origin of his ideas? Some of them very complex. Just think of this his Brother Peter Hitchens equally bright has come to a completely different conclusion and has written book about it.
I conclusion you do not have to be Christian to appreciate beauty, but recognition of beauty is a big sign pointing to God. I will bundle in there several things, appreciation of music, general art, nature, complexity, mathematics and ideas. Which you so lovely presented.
Kind regards
Defend the Word
Modori Skies: “That is not the idea behind the original comment.”
I know. I was trying to point out the absurdity of the original comment. I guess I’ll need to go into more depth than that, though.
“If there is no God than there is no need to be thankful for anything.”
I really don’t see how the one follows from the other here, unless you are talking about some special sense of thankfulness that is different than the everyday use. If someone does you a favor, it makes sense to be thankful to that person, regardless of whether or not a god exists that you might also be thankful to.
As to the rest, I don’t see what the objective morality argument has to do with thankfulness.
Defend the Word: For most Christians this is what is in general held.
1. There is “The God” not a god or many gods
2. His creative power is act of love
3. His instructions have been revealed for our benefit
4. His salvation plan is also delivered and offered freely
5. This is a great reason to be grateful
For Non-religious persons
1. We serve the Number one (Ourselves) first and foremost, this is why we only get involved with the things we have interest in.
2. Any co-operation between humans is in order to further our own goals. You scratch my back I scratch your back mentality; this demonstrate exchange of favours and trade to improve personal prospects of progression.
3. There are no absolutes by which we should go. The only absolute is that there are no absolutes. If there are no moral standards then not being grateful is acceptable attitude.
4. If we are exchanging favours (being mutually beneficial to each other) rather than giving away of ourselves; in that case why should one be grateful for anything?
(This is often demonstrated when climbing the corporate ladder, In order to succeed you will do anything and idea that “End justifies the means” is completely acceptable).
Midori Skies: The idea that non-religious persons are necessarily selfish is incorrect, though. Atheists may not follow a specific religious moral code, but we still have empathy. For instance, when I see my friend smile, it makes me happy, and when I see my friend cry, it makes me sad. That is in and of itself a good reason to try to be good to other people, because I genuinely want other people to be happy (though it is certainly not the only reason).
I’m not going to go too in depth on atheist morality, though, since that’s getting kind of off topic from thankfulness (and plenty of other atheists have written about morality in depth). Now, I don’t assume I know the hows and whys and ins and outs of everything about why humans feel thankful, but I have definitely observed that sometimes I feel thankful to people (and other atheists report being thankful as well). Since I do not believe in any gods, this would imply that believing in a god or gods (for example, believing that the Christian God exists and no others do) is not necessary to being thankful.
Defend the Word: We are going in circle here; nobody here ever said you don’t feel grateful. Idea here is that if there is no God you don’t have to be grateful. That is the whole point of the original comment. Atheists often borrow from the religious world view but fail to spot it and that is the main reason why they get themselves tied in the knots. This is where logic is not used but the instinct are used from our personal experiences but the analyses of the experience is dismissed simply because if we feel it then it must somehow prove our point. That is not how we should build our arguments.
I enjoy looking through an article that can make men and women think.
Also, many thanks for allowing for me to comment!